For the latest news and views on the English Question and the Disunited Kingdom, please visit English Commonwealth.

banner.gif

The way ahead for the English Democrats

Since this unseemly business was cleared up Steve Uncles has ended his silence and popped up on the British Democracy Forum to announce his belief that it's time for all English parties to "put aside their differences to agree a common strategy and campaign for the European 2009 Elections." It sounds reasonable enough until you realise that one of the parties Uncles is talking about is the England First Party. For me, and all the English nationalists that I know, such differences are impossible to put aside.

Sadly it was no great surprise to read that Matt O'Connor had accused the English Democrats Party of involvement with the far-right:

“I realised the English Democrats were working with ‘England First’ and had no choice other than to resign there and then.

“They try to present themselves as respectable ‘Middle England’ with leading members being solicitors and housewives.

“But the reality is something far different.

No great surprise, but still a disappointment because four years previously I had contacted the English Democrats over this very issue to warn them about their association with Third Way and, specifically, The Freedom Party through their English Lobby. Due to my naming of specific individuals the English Democrats accused me of being a member of Searchlight, but having assured them that I was not I eventually received the following reply from them:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Uncles"
Cc: Christine Constable; Robin Tilbrook
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:52 AM
Subject: English Democrats - 'Partner Parties

Dear Gareth

Just to respond to your question about 'English Democrats Party - Partner Parties'

English Lobby

The English Lobby was set up by Christine Constable, and included

English Democrats
Freedom Party
Third Way

All parties (I understand) had differing policies, but they shared the desire to have an English Parliament.

Christine has since been told that the some members of the Freedom Party are former National Front, and also they seem to be having some internal squabbles so it has been difficult to communicate with them.

Therefore the English Lobby is now officially just

English Democrats
Third Way

=============================================

I have personally had conversations with the following parties

Liberals (Old)
Countryside Party
Senior Citizens Party

England First
English Independence Party
New England Party

The Senior Citizens Party is led by a founder CEP member, so they are in favour of an English Parliament, but also in favour of Regional Assemblies.

England First is led by Mark Cotterill [link added by Toque], who has a history of White Nationalism, however (he says) that some of his members are far more moderate in terms of racism - before you totally dismiss them, then I would suggest you have a meeting, after all most of their agenda is pro-English.

We communicate with England First, to ensure that we don't put up candidates against each other in the same election - I am sure you would agree that this is tactically sensible.

Countryside Party - we are trying to make them aware of the English Constitutional mess we are in.

Liberal Party - we have manage to convince the Liberals that English issues need to be addressed.

To conclude

We speak and lobby a large number of parties, including UKIP, Conservatives, and Labour and Liberals.

We also try to speak to Scottish and Welsh Nationalists.

We do not have any formal channels with the BNP.

There are only four active English Nationalist Parties that I am aware of.

English Democrats (Non-Racist)
New England Party (Non-Racist)
English Independence Party (Some Racist views)
English First Party (Some Racist views)

I am not personally a racist, however I do not think that this should stop me (and anyone from the English Democrats Party) talking to other English Parties, who may have some racist views - for a start you may be able to 'convert' them if you talk to them !!!!!!

As for the ECC, this is 'open' to all those interested in the future of England, so we can't really shut people out of this.

Steve Radford, Chairman of the Liberal Party is openly 'gay' but I think you would agree that this should not stop the Liberals taking part in the ECC.

The Countryside Party, want to chase foxes, again, does this preclude these people from debating the future of England ?

The Senior Citizens Party, as I see it is prejudice against people under the age of 50, again this is not something I agree with, but should it preclude them from taking part in the ECC ????

Both the England First Party, and the English Nationalist Party, are suggesting policies of voluntary repatriation, well again, this is not something that I think they should have in their policies, but again does this preclude them from discussing the future of England ??????

I have a personal rule that I always meet people before making a judgement on what they are, or what they have supposed to have done.

I would strongly suggest that the CEP sends someone to meet with England First before you jump to conclusions, and demand that they take links off of their site, as these sort of communications will cause bad feeling - there are enough people to fight, without creating a few more!!!!!!!!

Focus on what you have in common with people, rather then what you have that is different - that's my advice anyway.

Hope this helps

Steve

It is deeply worrying that the English Democrats think you can 'convert' racists into English nationalists by talking to them. Not only does it display an astonishing naivety, but one also has to ask "Why?". As an avowedly civic nationalist party the English Democrats ought to be putting up candidates against racist ethnic nationalists and fighting them on the doorsteps with an inclusive brand of English nationalism. Trying to convert right-wing goons, or negotiating a strategic alliance with them, is not only morally repugnant but also down-right stupid and self-defeating.

That racists can be converted into English nationalists appears to be beyond doubt if the EDP website is to be believed. In this article Alan Winder (who according to some sources has links with the National Front, BNP and Combat18) describes his journey from white nationalism to British nationalism to English nationalism, as if it's a quite natural progression; English nationalism as a position of convenience when political reality has extinguished the political potency of other nationalisms. Frankly I'm appalled by it because that's not how I arrived at English nationalism, and I have no desire to be associated with such people. But unfortunately - as an English nationalist - I am associated with it because of the contacts the EDP forge and the drivel that they publish on their website.

English Democrats Screenshot The EDP's Alan Winder article even hotlinks to now removed images on the England First Party website




Due to a recent acrimonious party split, in which two national council members left the English Democrats, it was revealed that the EngDems had yet again been meeting with the England First Party, which is presumably the source of Matt O'Connor's accusations. Naturally I was horrified. Steve Uncles confirmed to me that two meetings had taken place with the England First Party, one in 2003 and one in 2007, and went on to reveal his strategy: "it is highly unlikely that he will get elected if two English parties stand in the same area". But a different story emerged from the English Democrats Communications Officer, Ed Abrams, who told me that "NO meeting was ever agreed to or sanctioned by the NC of our party", and "if a meeting did take place then it was down to that individual and nothing to do with the party"..

The obsession that the EngDems have with minor fringe players is, in my opinion, damaging to the cause of civic nationalists like me. As well as these various little English parties they've also tried to poach the likes of Winston McKenzie and Robert Kilroy-Silk from Veritas, and then came their one notable success: Matt O'Connor.

There's a huge centre-ground of people who vote Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat, and it's those people that the English Democrats need to attract. This won't be achieved from a position in the gutter. The EDP have never taken my advice on anything (which is why I reluctantly write this article), and perhaps they won't now, but for what it's worth here's my advice: Stop meeting with racists, instead you should fight them; differentiate yourselves from ethnic nationalists in the minds of the public, help show that English nationalism is not soft white nationalism; move yourself out from the fringes, focus on the mainstream; stop poaching from other parties, recruit from your own ranks, and; for all our sakes start preaching the progressive nationalist values that I think you believe in, make those your main focus and people will find common ground with you.

UPDATE: See The English effect is happening!

Trackback URL for this post:

http://toque.co.uk/trackback/1000

The English effect is happening!

In the CEP's Summer "Think of England" magazine Frank Field offers up a condensed version of his Chancellor's speech to the University of Hertfordshire:

the English Question and immigration are intricately linked in two significant respects. Both issues

The Steve Uncles show

Some English Democrats are upset about the article that I wrote about Steve Uncles meeting with the England First Party. Unfortunately that's democracy, and what political parties get up to is a matter of public interest.

According to Mr Uncles "Steve U

Share this

I always get the impression

I always get the impression that this is some kind of obsession of Steve Uncles to get all English Nationalist parties working together and if some of them are racist and this backfires on his party (as it already has done with O'Connor) he doesn't seem to care. The fact that the party he belongs to supports a civic nationalism and the white nationalism of the England First party goes against what I would assume is a basic principle of the Eng Dems and that with people are all too happy to tar Engish nationalism as racist and that associating with a party with racist views makes you 'guilty by association' you'd think would make someone give pause but it doesn't. Trouble is the rest of the Eng Dem leadership seem either uninterested in reining him in or unable to do so despite the issues this causes either. This applies in other areas too. The online spat with the breakaway Free England party which to an outsider only served to make the Free England Party look good and the Eng Dems bad.

This may be entirely wrong and no doubt someone will come along and tell me so but that's what my interpretation is.

This is obviously about

This is obviously about recruitment rather than anything else. For if EDP members want to see devolution come about, they ought to concentrate on talking to Tories, Liberals, Labourites, Greens, UKIPers, etc instead of crypto-fascists.

Quite agree Charlie. Tories

Quite agree Charlie. Tories and Greens would seem potentially most fertile to me. I think we can give Labour a miss for a while ...

Labour figures such as Frank

Labour figures such as Frank Field and Derek Wyatt back an English parliament. I think that more Labour MPs will come out in favour should Brown be replaced by someone with an English constituency...

It seems to me the

It seems to me the establishment has started to undermine the English by throwing political correctness our way. The use of PC is very clever it makes a criminal out of whomever makes a statement and therefore stops people from talking about and debating certain issues, eg race. There is no one group within Englands racial makeup that have assimliated themselves so well into our culture that they are as English or even more English than the indigenous population. For this reason it should be perfectly understandable certain people are concerned about such issues. Most certainly 2 million muslims and over 2000 mosques in our country worries me. This does not make me a racist, I spent last weekend at a Sikh wedding, with a Sikh family I am very close to and fond of. They have been in this country for decades and do not consider themselves English, nor do their children who were all born in England. This is because they still practice their own culture and do not get involved in anything English. I find it amusing at how we police ourselves about racism but asian people openly joke about THE WHITES especialy when it comes to who is going to clean up the mess after the wedding or who is going to be waiting on tables during the meal. It is possible to change peoples minds through debate this gives us the opportunity to educate people. I also think that if by having an English government and indepepndant country you think the only thing to change willl be the government and things will then go on as they are now then you are mistaken. Make no mistake this is about promoting the English culture back to a position of dominance. My view is, there are 44 muslim countries around the world but only one England. I want my England to be English in its culture, if this upsets other people to the extent were they can no longer stay here then they will have to decide where they want to live. I want people coming to live in England because they want to live the English way of life, not because they want to transport their home country and traditions here and create their own mini state in one of our cities. Can I suggest simply laying out our policies and allowing them to do the talking for us, attracting people as we go along, more and more will join. Leave the smaller fringe parties and try to attract a percentage of the larger parties. Also, please please please set the agenda and do not allow others to push us into that political minefield of poitical correctness. This is what the governemnt would want us to do. Take control of the situation, get back on course and win back our country.

[...] on The English effect

[...] on The English effect is happening!wonkotsane on Britain: Not Dead Yet, thanks to the OlympicsLittle Man in a Toque » The way ahead for the English Democrats on The English effect is happening!Mike on Team Britishnessaedis on Team BritishnessRobert on Team [...]

[...] of this should be a

[...] of this should be a great surprise. The English Democrats have a less than encouraging history when it comes to the far-right, having flirted with the Third Way (which includes assorted [...]

Im a former member of the

Im a former member of the English Democrats who left within a few months when I realised that they are a Mickey Mouse Party. For a start as stated above they appear to have limited knowledge of electoral science and at best can expect a couple of councillors elected at the next local elections. Secondly, whilst the English Democrats as an organisation are certainly not racist there are elements within the party that are. They also let themselves down with their descriptions of society. Apparently we have (white) 'English people' and (white and non-white) 'People of England'. The former also includes people of non 'ethnic English' decent but who are white... I could not tolerate an identity policy based on skin colour. I do not consider this attitude explicitly racist but it certainly is ignorant and counter-productive. Lastly they appear to have limited knowledge even when it comes to their own manifesto. They make a big fuss about the need to prevent the 'regionalisation of England' but at the same time advocated devolution for Cornwall. This policy has since been shelved, presumably when they realised how stupid it made them look. They also want a 'points based immigration system based on the Canadian and Australian models'. LOL. They quote two of the western nations whose immigration rates are higher than that of England.

[...] The Little Man in a

[...] The Little Man in a Toque has further background on certain parts of the EDs’ preparedness to work with racists. [...]

Theme by Danetsoft and Danang Probo Sayekti inspired by Maksimer