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The English effect is happening!

In the CEP's Summer "Think of England" magazine Frank Field offers up a condensed version of his Chancellor's speech to the University of Hertfordshire:

the English Question and immigration are intricately linked in two significant respects. Both issues are still no go areas for most major British politicians. Both issues feed the BNP vote.

According to Frank, not only should the democratic unfairness be addressed, but action is also required because "the English Question is being taken up seriously by the BNP". As regular readers will know I have been warning about the BNP's attempts to leap aboard the English bandwagon for a considerable time, and as my recent post on the English Democrats showed my concerns in this direction don't appear to have been shared by all. In fact the English Democrats appear to see a benefit in the far-right joining the English cause.

KentishmanOver at the British Democracy Forum, English Democrat, Steve Uncles, states that "I think it's great [that] 3 Different Flavours of English Nationalists are Standing in Elections this year", whatever flavour of English Nationalism they represent. One of the flavours to which he refers is the distinctly racial England First Party, with whom Steve Uncles has met, and whose policies include:

  • Repatriation of all immigrants to their lands of ancestral origin
  • Capital punishment for all murderers
  • Restoration of the gibbet, stocks and whipping post for serious violent offenders, paedophiles, sex pests and drug dealers.
  • The abolition of the Islamic faith and demolition of all mosques

When questioned as to whether he supports the restoration of the gibbet Steve Uncles jokes, "It's a printing error, I believe they want to still be able to get their giblets so they can make Chicken Soup!".

Steve UnclesIt's not just the England First Party, Steve Uncles also invites British National Party members over to English nationalist forums for the purpose of debate. Debate about what exactly? The answer may be revealed by the breathless excitement with which another English Democrat, David Lane, announces that the BNP are discussing a name change to the English National Party (ironically a name registered to the EDP themselves):

David LaneThe English effect is happening !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both UKIP and the BNP are debating changing their names on their respective web sites.


"Controversy is not the purpose of this thread.

For several reasons I think the BNP should change the Party's name to the English National Partry.

Scots, Irish and Welsh quite rightly have their own Nationalist Parties which are acceptable, even to the Establishment. But these Nationals are also British. Whenever anyone mentions British Nationalism it is as though the Black Death has returned. I have no idea why Scots, Welsh or Irish Nationalism is ok but not 'British'. For much the same reasons I think we should have an English Parliament. The 'other' Brits can sit in our Parliament but not vice versa. It would not only ruff the collars of those politiciams who hate the English, it may also be attractive to voters. Also, in an English Parliament, 'British' people would not be able to sit in it."

Looks like British is out and ENGLISH is in, both UKIP and BNP are now debating name changes !!!!!!!!

In case you missed it I draw your attention to:

"Also, in an English Parliament, 'British' people would not be able to sit in it."

As I have highlighted previously, it is the belief of the BNP that an English parliament should contain only the ethnic English, hence the quotes around the word British.

In an article on the English Democrats News blog Steve Uncles recognises that the BNP are adopting English nationalism for pragmatic reasons and suggests that a change of name and loyalty would be beneficial to them:

The failing BNP along with failing UKIP realise the English Nationalism is the only viable alternative political view point.

The problem these Unionist parties have is that they don't have England or English in their name - the English Democrats is the only way forward.

And it gets worse. In this email to a fellow English nationalist Steve Uncles suggests infiltrating the English Independence Party to affect a merger with the English Democrats:

English independence PartyWhat about infiltrating the English Independence Party

After all, you could claim that you have "fallen out" with the English Demcorats, as we don't have a policy of English Independence.

You may also be able to vote out/demand their silly immigration policy is scraped, as a reason for joining, and then vote to merge with the English Democrats after this is achieved.

It would then give us an angle on what is going on, with a possiblity of neutralising them.

I guess that Martin, and Alan may also be interested.
(English Democrats special forces?)

We may have our different views, but we are all trying our best for England.

What-do-ya-think ?


The silly immigration policy to which Steve refers is the encouraged repatriation of "post-WW2 non-European mass immigrants to return to their countries of origin, culture and extended families" to "restore a SINGLE, EXCLUSIVE ENGLISH CULTURE as a basis for government policy". Silly indeed, but why would he want to incorporate these people into the English Democrats Party; is support for an English parliament his only criteria?

In addition the EDP have also written to England's Parliamentary Party to suggest a merger, and they are completely obsessed with both UKIP and Veritas, with their one notable scalp being the defection of the West Dorset UKIP branch to the EDP. An obsession that led Dr Richard North to observe that:

English Democrats, by the way - superficially attractive - is, inter alia a sink hole for little Englanders. Some of the names I recognise as trouble-makers from UKIP days, people whom UKIP was fortunate to lose when they deserted to Veritas and who have since found refuge in their final bolt-hole as the Kilroy party falls apart.

The EDP will doubtless take pride in such an attack from a unionist political opponent (even if he is, like them, Eurosceptic). But what if North has a point, what if all this courting of fringe parties is populating the English Democrats with a load of undesirables, with dubious motives, from the fringes? And what if the perception that the English movement is populated with such people is preventing it from becoming a mainstream movement?

Recruitment for recruitment's sake appears to be the raison d'être. One English Democrat correspondent on Political Betting even boasts that he has "converted many BNP voters into supporters of an independent English Parliament and English Democrat voters". He then hopefully adds, "Race does not enter our politics". I'm sorry to be a party-pooper, but if you recruit from the BNP then race will enter your politics.

The England effect, if it does happen, needs to be a cross-party, mainstream and pluralist campaign for English national emancipation; it will not come about from an unholy alliance of ethnic nationalists, eurosceptics and disaffected British nationalists, and it will not benefit from people that are in it for purely pragmatic reasons.

The Campaign for an English Parliament, who will have stalls at the Conservative and Liberal Democrat conferences, tend to focus their attention on persuading the centre-ground of the benefits of a political Englishness. For me it is the CEP's policy that represents the way forward, but regrettably the actions of other English nationalist groups have held the CEP back in that respect.

Frank Field is correct, the English Question and Immigration are linked, but not only in the two ways that he describes. They are also linked in a third way because there is an overlap between civic English nationalists, campaigning for a constitutional Englishness, and ethnic English nationalists primarily concerned with what England can do for them; an overlap that is reinforced by the EDP's attempt to tap into the pool of ethnic nationalism and British nationalism to garner support for their goal of an English parliament. In doing so they make a strategic and ethical mistake.

I reiterate my previous advice to the English Democrats:

There’s a huge centre-ground of people who vote Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat, and it’s those people that the English Democrats need to attract. This won’t be achieved from a position in the gutter. The EDP have never taken my advice on anything (which is why I reluctantly write this article), and perhaps they won’t now, but for what it’s worth here’s my advice: Stop meeting with racists, instead you should fight them; differentiate yourselves from ethnic nationalists in the minds of the public, help show that English nationalism is not soft white nationalism; move yourself out from the fringes, focus on the mainstream; stop poaching from other parties, recruit from your own ranks, and; for all our sakes start preaching the progressive nationalist values that I think you believe in, make those your main focus and people will find common ground with you.

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The way ahead for the English Democrats

Since this unseemly business was cleared up Steve Uncles has ended his silence and popped up on the British Democracy Forum to announce his belief that it's time for all English parties to "put aside their differences to agree a common strategy and campai

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[...] UPDATE: See The English

[...] UPDATE: See The English effect is happening! [...]

Really excellent and

Really excellent and informative post.

While I agree we need an English parliament, like you, and I hate the mainstream parties I could never join with a group of rascists.

[...] Not Dead Yet, thanks to

[...] Not Dead Yet, thanks to the OlympicsMaria on Britain: Not Dead Yet, thanks to the Olympicstbrrob on The English effect is happening!wonkotsane on Britain: Not Dead Yet, thanks to the OlympicsLittle Man in a Toque » The way [...]

I agree with your point, but

I agree with your point, but I still don't understand this obsession with the BNP from mainstream politicians. They are a small party without less than 1% of councillors and one London assembly member.

I support an English parliament because I believe it is the right thing to do and would improve the way England is governed. I don't support merely to keep the issue out of the hands of the BNP bogeyman.

I have a lot of respect for Frank Field (and you won't hear me say that of many Labour MPs), but this BNP scaremongering plays into their hands. It gives them publicity beyond their electoral support. And it encourages people to vote for them. When politicians say they will address immigration, or an English parliament, or whatever issue, to counter the threat if the BNP, that can only be an incentive to vote BNP and attempt to force the government to address these issues.

I won't vote BNP, because I disagree with their policies, but I can see why people would as a protest. Vote EDP and be told no-one supports an English parliament, or vote BNP and be told we must address this issue to avoid the BNP capitalising?

The attempts to scare the electorate with the racist bogeyman can I think only be counter-productive.

There may be an element of

There may be an element of frightening the horses about Frank's BNP warning, but the fact is that we don't know. Is he more concerned about getting an English Parliament or more concerned about preventing Labour losing votes to the BNP? Probably the later, but frankly who cares if it puts the wind up already jittery Labour MPs.

Frank may be aware that his warning could encourage people to vote BNP, and has made it anyway.

I agree with you about the temptation to vote BNP. However repellent they are there is no better protest vote, and it will serve Labour right if their traditional supporters do desert them for the BNP.

It's not really about the number of councillors that they have, it's their ability to polarise communities, often Labour wards, and the divisive effect that a high BNP turnout has on community relations. Not to mention the fact that it's Labour whose vote they are diminishing. I expect Labour also realise that it's them that will cop the blame for people turning to the BNP.

I agree the EDP must appeal

I agree the EDP must appeal to the mainstream voter if they are to have any chance of real power.Having anything to do with the BNP is political suicide.I have spent considerable time looking at the BNP and the conclusion is that the leadership are neo Nazi thugs who seem incapable of seeing that their solution is worse than the problem and everything else aside they are just plain unacceptable to the British public.The BNP members on the other hand I understand, but they are being conned with a user friendly version of what the BNP would do once they acheived power.Personally knowing what I do if I found the EDP were in discussions with the BNP I would withdraw my support as should anyone with integrity
Chris Judd

[...] converts to English

[...] converts to English nationalism, and not only BNP and UKIP members themselves but potentially the parties they desert. The inherent risks of such a policy to the broader civic movement for an English parliament appear [...]

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